Maria Bamford on Making Your Own Rules

Kamau chats with alternative comedy legend Maria Bamford, praising her artistry and creative fearlessness, recounting how fellow comedians have long considered her a genius. They bond over difficult, irritable fathers teaching practical skills like changing tires, and how the “vibe” made learning impossible.

Maria and Kamau discuss their sometimes complicated love of standup: both cherish the craft but often prefer being home, joking that the best part of a show is when it’s canceled. Maria talks about wanting comedy to bring bliss while recognizing it rarely changes the world, and Kamau says comics must write as if jokes will change the world but not actually believe that they will.

Kamau describes reshaping his touring life, early shows for older and parent audiences, bringing his daughters on the road, and credits Maria’s DIY coffee-shop and 9 a.m. shows as inspiration to make standup work on his own terms. Maria explains her pay-what-you-can neighborhood theater shows, and intimate Zoom sets for tiny audiences, which she prefers over “great crowds.” They move into mentorship and money: Kamau leans on Dwayne Kennedy and others for artistic and ethical guidance, while Maria uses 12-step programs like Debtors Anonymous to manage work and finances, and openly discusses low opener pay and her efforts to profit-share with her openers, like Jackie Kashian.

Maria insists on paying friends well for show-business advice and stresses the importance of financial transparency. They discuss her Judd Apatow-produced documentary, Maria’s ambivalence about being its subject, and its value in normalizing mental health within a sexist, racist, ableist comedy world.

Later, Maria critiques benefit shows and nonprofit “hustles,” recounting her disastrous schizophrenia benefit set and Howie Mandel’s success, and Kamau’s reliance on Pastor Mike McBride to vet which causes to support. Support women living on Los Angeles’s Skid Row by donating to The Downtown Women’s Center at Who's With Me is produced by Rabbit Grin Productions.

Music by Chris Dowd. Part of the Pushkin Network.

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